So What About ” Eternal Salvation & Free Will “

I just finished reading an excellent article by Dontbefooled666’s Blog, the title Code Red Warning. it’s about end time prophesy and how it relates to us today. I recommend you read the article:

Good morning and an excellent post.  One question,

God’s children will not suffer His wrath (His obedient children, that is. Important note: ‘once saved, always saved’ is a lie!!)

So you don’t believe in eternal salvation?  Or did I  read this incorrectly, I understand that in our delusional sinful world there are those that claim to be saved, yet they may very well have never been saved.

The problem with this is that we don’t walk in  their shoes nor do we know their hearts.  So what we may see as lacking or sinful may be 100 % better than what they were before they came to the LORD.  They like the rest of us are still a diamond in the rough being polished by the Almighty in ways that we can’t  see or comprehend.

If  ” Salvation is a gift from the LORD so that no one may boast,” we than have to understand that the only one that really knows us is the great  “I AM, ” if a person has truly been saved they will know it. Those that have doubts may very easily be because of sin or maybe because the more one grows in the knowledge of the LORD the more one realizes how insignificant we really are in life and how we are nothing more than a “vapor in the wind here today and gone tomorrow,  a wave tossed in the ocean ” like the song “Who Am I” by Casting Crown says.

All I really know is that when I begin to think that I understand GOD, He then shows me how little I truly know HIM or HIS ways.  At least that has been my story. To me the word that I use the most when speaking with the LORD is “why.”  I know all the biblical answers that we are taught in church and what the word says, yet they really don’t answer the real tough questions like,  LORD  You created all things seen and unseen, why did you create Satan, if YOU knew beforehand what was going to happen, why ? Some might  see it as a lack of faith on my part  or lack of respect in asking the CREATOR questions that may make a person of little faith question HIS existence. The fact that I ask these questions proves my devotion and willingness in my part to better understand HIM and HIS ways.

When you see all the evil around us and you’re honest with yourself you have to ask these questions, at least I do. I wouldn’t have a problem if GOD would tell me, “my son the reasons why there is so much evil in the world is because there are others that are  equal in  power to mine. They create havoc, chaos, and misery, while I fight them to bring eternal life. I would follow GOD even more if that was the reasons for all the evil in this world. Again some may be offended by what I just wrote, but the bottom line is that the one who I believe in and trust knows my mind and my heart and I know with the peace that surpasses all understanding that the ” GREAT I AM, the ALPHA & OMEGA, MY LORD , SAVIOR and GOD doesn’t take offense for I wanting to know HIM as HE knows me.

Another thing, we all are told of  “free will.” I kind of question that also. I will give you an example, I have the free will to want to live in peace, be joyful, have good health, yet I can’t for one second control any of these circumstances.  So how than can we be told we have free will.  I do have the limited free will to want these things, but I can’t be guaranteed that I will have it in this life here on earth. I do have the free will to believe in GOD, as well as to believe what ever else my mind and heart tells me, but that’s about it.  What are your thoughts ?

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9 Responses

  1. Hmmm, toosmall. Lots of thoughts here.

    First off God is not of confusion so if you have any it is not of God but the adversary. You appear to have a great handle on this subject.

    Why why why? I don’t know but trust God that one day I will know. Created in his image and we know God wishes us to all be with Him (freewill) but we must choose good over evil.

    Toosmall I have lots to say, but my keyboard is psycho 😉 and it’s stressing me out! hahaah

    Take care man and know that God is in charge and He doesn’t make mistakes. Ps 46:10

    • Have a great weekend Liberty, your last post about the Veterans was great, the gentleman in the wheel chair says it all. How messed up are so many people these days in our country, in which they have no respect for the great sacrifices that our Soldiers and their families make for all of us. We should always have them in our prayers.

  2. Your perception of free will is very different from mine. I didn’t even know there was more than one way to define it! I’ve never had to consider what my definition is, and I’m perplexed!!

    I think what you are describing is the result of free will–we all can choose what we believe, and what we do, but the outcome is never guaranteed for any of us, because everyone else has free will too!

    You may lose your health, but don’t you have the choice to be a happy person anyway? Others may be unkind, but don’t you have the choice of whether to respond with hostility, or to be a man of peace?

    I think it has to be first understood that many things are beyond our control, because everyone has free choice, and each one of us affects many others by our choices.

    Going beyond that, we each have the choice of how we express ourselves–through our actions and our words. We can choose our goals and work towards them. We can choose to obey the laws, or break them. We can choose to be kind to others, or hateful. We can choose to worship God, or neglect Him, etc. etc.

    I see free will as not being forced to do and speak in certain ways. If you are in prison, or the military, you get up when they tell you to, you eat when they say, shower when they say, go to bed when they say–all whether you want to, or not.

    We still have many freedoms in America–for however much longer that lasts. It’s sad that you don’t seem to realize what you have, because that makes it so much easier for someone to take it away from you (and many are working towards that end).

    I don’t know your age, but I wonder if it is a generational thing? The progressives have certainly been doing a great job of indoctrinating kids . . . I wonder if ‘free will’ is another term that has been redefined?

    • We still have many freedoms in America–for however much longer that lasts. It’s sad that you don’t seem to realize what you have, because that makes it so much easier for someone to take it away from you (and many are working towards that end).

      Wow, read my articles and you will know exactly where I stand! ” And that’s why I’m so vocal about everything in life. starting with GOD, Family, Country, and every aspect of our everyday political system in America which many are trying to destroy. This is all I write about everyday!!!!!!!

      I don’t know your age, but I wonder if it is a generational thing? The progressives have certainly been doing a great job of indoctrinating kids . . . I wonder if ‘free will’ is another term that has been redefined?

      Well although I tell everyone I’m 19, my wife of 30 plus years and my two adult children daughter 28 and son 26 tell me otherwise. The “generational thing” is that people have forgotten that “Socialism was just a nice word for calling a Communist” And a big “NO” not in my family, progressives have brainwashed those that are clueless to GOD & history, but not in my family. None of us bought or accepted the big LIE that is “Hope & Change”

      As to free will, it’s limited, why? Because we have only choices to make, yet the choice even when they are correct don’t guarantee or determine the outcome that we so desire. Only GOD has a free will, why? Because HE can make the outcome be what ever HE so desires, we just have choices in which we have the perception to believe that in so doing them it’s free will. Even though none of us can control the very second in which we’re brought into this life or second that we will leave it.

      • I’m sorry. I confess, I haven’t had time to read your posts, more than to glance at titles, etc. and know we’re on the same page about many things. I have been so pressed for time the last couple of years . . .

        Theoretically, how is it even possible for everyone to have what they want when our desires conflict with one another?

        If we all wanted peace, truth, honor, justice, love, kindness, goodness, generosity, etc.–and are willing to give the same!!–then perhaps there would be less conflict with everyone exercising free will.

        But I suspect there would still be times, regarding smaller things (who gets the last cookie?), when we’d have to decide whether or not to step aside and let someone else have the thing we both want.

        I still think we’re talking about different things when we say ‘free will’.

        I don’t believe God made some people to love evil, and thereby be destined for hell. I don’t believe Satan was created to be evil and thereby suffer eternal torment. I think, within each of us, is the potential to love evil, or to love good. I believe we choose.

        I guess if a person believes that God created some of us to be evil, and some to be good, then they can say there is no free will.

        But if God created each of us with the potential to go either way, and allowed us to choose–I call that free will.

        Does God have free will? I believe He did. But I believe, that when He began His creation, with the intent of giving all of His creatures free will, He knew He would have to sacrifice some of His free will for that to be possible.

        ‘[God] wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth’ (I Tim 2:4)

        Yet the fact that He doesn’t impose that on them, shows that He has sacrificed some of His free will.

        And how could He say that, and condemn them if they don’t, if He had specifically created some of them to be evil?

        You may say that He can take back His free will any time, and just destroy all that He has made and begin again–but His Word has bound Him to the sacrifice of His will (that He made on our behalf)–for all eternity!

        Even if He destroyed it all, and left no witnesses to the promises He had made, He would still have to live with Himself, and the knowledge that He was a liar. And because God never changes, if He is a liar in the future, then He is a liar now, and was a liar in the past.

        These reflections/musings/questions are good–because they are the fundamental questions that each of us faces at some point. Is there a God? Does He care about us? Is He honest? Is He fair? Is He good? Do we truly get to decide anything for ourselves, or are we merely pawns that were created for His amusement/ego/selfish desires?

        Many who thought they were Christians are going to be facing these questions in the days ahead–as this world unravels.

        Be very careful! This was where Satan tripped up Eve–His questions implied that God was not being honest or fair with Adam & Eve. Apparently Eve had not made up her mind as to what she believed about God’s character, and the enemy’s subtle words led her astray.

        There is much deception these days. One of the MAJOR ones is that all roads lead to God–that there is just one God and He is the same God worshiped in all religions. This is absolutely false!

        There IS one god (not God) that is behind all religions except Judaism and Christianity. He is none other than Satan/Lucifer/The Devil. Allah is absolutely not God–the more you read the Koran, the more obvious it should be (to Christians) that Allah IS Satan.

        Another lie, held by the ‘Luciferians’, is that Lucifer and Satan are not the Same. That Lucifer is light and truth, blah blah blah, and that Satan is really just the dark side of God. This, obviously, is also a lie.

        Not everyone is talking about the same being when they talk about ‘God’ (or ‘Jesus Christ’ or ‘Satan’ or ‘Lucifer’).

        Be careful to compare your questions against the scriptures. The scriptures repeatedly tell us that God is good, honest, unchanging, and loving. They also tell us that He cannot support evil, that He is righteous and just.

        Not all of our questions (or thoughts) come from within us. Some of them are sent by the enemy. We each have to make up our minds (ASAP!!) whether God is good and is all that the scriptures say He is–or whether He is withholding from us, not being completely honest with us, or not being fair.

        The question for each of us is:
        Do you judge God to be innocent until proven guilty (beyond a reasonable doubt)?
        Or do you judge God to be guilty, until He can prove, to your satisfaction, that He is innocent?

        These questions must be addressed by each of us, because they form the basis for our spiritual beliefs. What you decide the answers to these questions are, will be the foundation for your spirituality, and will lead you to the one you will ultimately choose to worship.

        • Okay I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, and since I know that that you’re spiritually mature in your faith I’m going to challenge you and in the process I just might learn something new. Here are my questions:

          GOD is called good and pure through out the bible: now if you or I as parents could do anything to prevent our own children or any other child from experiencing any horrific type of pain or death, wouldn’t we as good parent if we could prevent it from happening? And if we didn’t, would we call ourselves or anyone else that would refuses to prevent pain or death on their own children or on any other child good? Yet GOD created all things and HE knew before hand what would happen, how then is it that we judge humans on one level and GOD on another?

          Who among us doesn’t get disgusted when we hear of a child that got raped or murderer or is suffering from a terminal illness. While we see the evil that is in men hearts living the high life doing as they please at the expense of those most vulnerable among us. Those who suffer injustice in front of those that are suppose to protect us and govern among us. Where is GOD in all this? Yes, I know the verse, “if my people who are called by my name…..” still it doesn’t bring comfort to a parent that has suffered a lost of a young child or who’s child is lying on intensive care or on life support.

          See for me to say that none of this matter would be a lie, for me to say that I don’t get angry with GOD would also be another lie, yet I know down in the pit of my soul that GOD isn’t upset with me for thinking or saying these things. And again let me repeat myself, I have no problem in trusting and following GOD 100% even if He wasn’t the creator of all things, just as long that I knew for sure that He was fighting against the evil. Even if that evil was equal to HIM in power. I could accept that much more easily than what we are told to accept because it’s from scriptures.

          Scripture tells us to obey our earthly kings or rulers, does that mean that we should sit back and allow corrupt evil rulers like Hitler,Stalin, Mussolini, Mao, Castro etc to do as they please, since scripture tells us that they are put there by GOD?

          Also remember that in the old testament GOD’S children did fight to overthrow their earthly unjust rulers. Also I’m sure you have heard people make the claim that the GOD of the old testament is different than the GOD that reveals HIMSELF in the new testament.

          See I believe in GOD, I just don’t accept or understand things which don’t make sense to me, and I won’t just say that I do because a pastor, church or the bible says that I should. Now here is another one. There is a book called “Chariot of the gods” they had a documentary on it on the History channel I believe not to long ago. The author uses scriptures with what people who have claimed to be abducted say about their encounters with aliens and then shows scriptures to make the argument for what he claims were space traveler rather than what we would call GOD. It’s an interesting read and not for those that have little faith.

          See I just don’t accept the whole satan deal, I do believe that evil exist and that it’s all around us, and that there are evil spirits that could take control of people, no doubt in my mind that it’s all true. My whole argument is, why if GOD created all things HE would create something knowing all the harm that it would do, that in my mind doesn’t seem like something logical for someone that is perfect to do. The word perfect in itself says the whole thing.

          And mind you I’ve heard and know all the arguments that the church makes on this matter. But honestly I don’t buy it, I would rather hear someone say I don’t know, than tell me things that if we mere human were to do, all those who claim to worship GOD would call us evil. It just doesn’t make sense, at least not from my earthly one dimensional perspective. And like I said previously, my GOD knows me and even if I didn’t say it or write it HE would still know what my thoughts are, and if He didn’t. he would be no god at all. I hope you understand my questions and if you could answer these I have some others that I would like to ask as well.

  3. These are questions I have not asked–I just ‘don’t go there’. I trust God and believe He knows better than I and has reasons. But, I guess not asking prevents me from really knowing Him as well as He would like.

    I don’t have all the answers, but I know that He does. I just pray He’ll grant me His wisdom to answer your questions.

    You asked: ‘GOD is called good and pure through out the bible: now if you or I as parents could do anything to prevent our own children or any other child from experiencing any horrific type of pain or death, wouldn’t we as good parent if we could prevent it from happening? And if we didn’t, would we call ourselves or anyone else that would refuses to prevent pain or death on their own children or on any other child good?’

    my response: What would you do if you had a small child, and faced a situation where you had to reject God or die, and you knew that you would no longer be there to protect that child, if you chose death (not to mention the suffering the child would endure to witness your death, and be fatherless for the rest of her life)? Would you be bad if you remained faithful to God and ‘abandoned’ your child? Would you be good if you denounced God so that you could remain?
    What if you had a 18 year old son, and you had made him a deal when he started high school, that if he could keep his grades at a B average or better, you’d buy him the brand new car of his choice?
    And what if that son had a learning disability and struggled harder than anyone you had ever known, for 4 years, to get that car? Every Saturday he washed and waxed that car. He drove like a grandma so that nothing would happen to it . . .
    And what if one day the economy tanked and your business went under. The creditors were calling you daily, your car had been repossessed (so you bought yourself an old junker), you were 3 months behind on your mortgage and the bank was threatening foreclosure . . . but in spite of all that, you were holding back enough money to pay your son’s tuition at the trade school he wanted to attend . . . but you simply couldn’t afford the payments on his car.

    You chose to cover his tuition, buy him a bicycle, and try to sell his car to cover what you owed on the loan. You knew it was going to break his heart. You felt like an absolute failure–but were you ‘bad’?

    Would you allow your daughter’s leg to be amputated if she had gangrene in her foot?

    You love your wife, but you chose to get her pregnant, knowing the horrific pain she’d endure to give birth, and knowing that any time something happened to that child, she would suffer.

    I know that after Job suffered, God blessed him with more than he had in the first place. I know that Joseph’s abandonment, slavery and imprisonment humbled him of some of his pride and, because of or in spite of all he endured, he became a man of impeccable character.

    I know God had to ask His own son to die . . . for us . . . while we were still sinners.

    While there are certainly parallels in this life, the spirit world is a very different place from Earth. We cannot imagine what things are like there, but we know that the time we spend here is fleeting. Perhaps when we get there, it will be as if we had wakened from a vivid dream.

    If we never suffered, we could never partake of God’s strength, companionship, or comfort. There are some things that must be experienced to be understood. We can hear about God’s goodness, mercy, or love, but until we experience it for ourselves we don’t know that aspect of Him. He wants us to know Him as He knows us!

    You said: ‘I have no problem in trusting and following GOD 100% even if He wasn’t the creator of all things, just as long that I knew for sure that He was fighting against the evil. Even if that evil was equal to HIM in power.’

    My response: My belief is that evil will always exist, or have the potential to exist. I believe this is why God requires His children to be overcomers of evil. I believe we (or if not us, the angels) needed to see the whole life cycle of sin, to really understand why it must never be allowed to triumph . . . why even a little sin is too much. I believe God gives us the opportunity to come to the point that we hate sin enough to be ever-vigilant, and to give everything we have in us to fight it, whenever it raises its ugly head.

    I believe, even in the presence of evil, that God can endure and triumph. But I believe, for our sakes, that He will put an end to it.

    You asked: ‘Scripture tells us to obey our earthly kings or rulers, does that mean that we should sit back and allow corrupt evil rulers like Hitler,Stalin, Mussolini, Mao, Castro etc to do as they please, since scripture tells us that they are put there by GOD?’

    My response: As far as evil rulers–no, we don’t submit. ‘We ought to obey God rather than men’. Again, we must stand up and fight evil. We belong to a kingdom that has a greater authority than the kingdoms of this world. We must abide by the laws and standards of God’s kingdom.

    We are where we are now, because we didn’t know that we should have been doing that all along. We seem to have believed that, since we were present here, this world and its ways should take priority.

    You said: ‘Also I’m sure you have heard people make the claim that the GOD of the old testament is different than the GOD that reveals HIMSELF in the new testament.’

    My response: God never changes. There’s a lot that people without the Holy Spirit indwelling them can’t understand.

    You said: ‘There is a book called “Chariot of the gods” they had a documentary on it on the History channel I believe not to long ago. The author uses scriptures with what people who have claimed to be abducted say about their encounters with aliens and then shows scriptures to make the argument for what he claims were space traveler rather than what we would call GOD. It’s an interesting read and not for those that have little faith.’

    My response: The scriptures illustrate, time and again, who God says He is. He is not a deceiver. It is a seductive idea, and seems plausible, but that’s only because we’ve been desensitized to it through TV & movies.

    Remember, what we know is what we are told. It is not God behind the microphone at the evening news. People have biases, fantasies, ideas, and agendas. Most of what is real is never mentioned–instead, we are constantly spoonfed a paradigm that suits the needs of those that control the media–whether it is for their financial gain, or for the purposes of social engineering.

    You said: ‘See I just don’t accept the whole satan deal, I do believe that evil exist and that it’s all around us, and that there are evil spirits that could take control of people, no doubt in my mind that it’s all true. My whole argument is, why if GOD created all things HE would create something knowing all the harm that it would do’

    My reply: Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean you should dismiss it. If the Bible is God’s word to us, and if God is truthful, then there definitely IS a devil–Jesus speaks of him, and he is referred to as ‘the serpent’ in Genesis, and ‘the dragon’ in Revelation.

    I have come to believe, after studying Revelation, that there are some other very powerful demonic beings that we haven’t seen yet. I also am not sure whether Satan and Lucifer are the same evil being–but they’re close enough for me to consider them one and the same.

    It sounds like you may be questioning some very basic things–like: is the Bible true? is it infallible? is it God’s word to us? in addition to your questions concerning God’s character.

    If you are going to make judgments about what you are going to believe, it is important to decide what you will measure things against. Will you base your decision on what the Bible says–or on what you prefer to believe?

    I understand questioning and confusion, regarding things that are not explained in the Bible, or that seem contrary to everyday life . . . but when something is spelled out in the Bible, and it doesn’t fit with our paradigm of how things are, or should be, we (Christians) must accommodate ourselves to it, rather than tinker with The Word to align it with our beliefs.

    There are always things that we are not going to understand. It is folly to think that we could understand a world and beings that we have never seen, based on our experiences in a world that is only a faint representation of the one that is real and eternal. If that world cannot be viewed with our eyes, why would we believe that we could understand it with our finite minds? Eventually you come to a place where you take a leap of faith, and believe in what you cannot see–or you step back from the edge.

    Be very careful. The whole reason that there is so much deception and delusion in the world today, is because people ‘did not love the truth, so God sent them a powerful delusion . . . ‘

    In my opinion, most of the questions you are struggling with are answered when you really understand free will. The way that I understand free will, it may very well be one of the most fundamental and critical building blocks in God’s design for mankind.

    • You: my response: What would you do if you had a small child, and faced a situation where you had to reject God or die,

      You know, if you knew me personally you would know the answer without having to ask, but since you don’t let me introduce myself: I’m the kind of person that will go down with a sinking ship, I will always root for the underdog if it stands for truth, I will rather loose in life doing the right things and having a clear conscience than win and have no peace. I’m that friend that scripture talks about that sticks closer than a brother, I’m always there for whom ever may need my help. So the question to reject GOD or die, that’s an easy one, lets say that I’m left behind, during the rapture, I would rather loose my head and stand for the truth than save my head for a short while here on earth.

      You: and you knew that you would no longer be there to protect that child, if you chose death (not to mention the suffering the child would endure to witness your death, and be fatherless for the rest of her life)?

      I would go out swinging and my child would know without a doubt that I did all that I could to save both of our lives.

      You: Would you be bad if you remained faithful to God and ‘abandoned’ your child?

      Again knowing the way that I am, I would die trying to save both our lives.

      You: Would you be good if you denounced God so that you could remain?

      In my opinion I would be selling GOD out and myself. I wouldn’t be the first to have ever done this or the last, I would be just like Peter. Who loved the LORD but in a moment of weakness due to lack of faith he did what anyone of us is capable of doing.

      You: What if you had a 18 year old son, and you had made him a deal when he started high school, that if he could keep his grades at a B average or better, you’d buy him the brand new car of his choice?
      And what if that son had a learning disability and struggled harder than anyone you had ever known, for 4 years, to get that car? Every Saturday he washed and waxed that car. He drove like a grandma so that nothing would happen to it . . .

      Okay if I had done my job properly as a father and taught my children the ways of the LORD, my child would know the reasons why even though I had made a promise that now due to circumstances beyond my control we would have to postpone the car till a later date. This is way too easy, again his acceptance or refusal would all be based on how well I did my job at raising him or her to see the big picture called life.

      You: And what if one day the economy tanked and your business went under. The creditors were calling you daily, your car had been repossessed (so you bought yourself an old junker), you were 3 months behind on your mortgage and the bank was threatening foreclosure . . . but in spite of all that, you were holding back enough money to pay your son’s tuition at the trade school he wanted to attend . . . but you simply couldn’t afford the payments on his car. You chose to cover his tuition, buy him a bicycle, and try to sell his car to cover what you owed on the loan. You knew it was going to break his heart. You felt like an absolute failure–but were you ‘bad’?

      Look I went through that scenario in 2005-06, my business of 25 years came to a sudden end, you know the funny thing? The previous six years from 1999-2005 had been my most prosperous years in business, and in 2004 I made more money than I had ever in my whole entire life.

      Just as my state of Florida was getting hit with 3 hurricanes that year, some what of a fluke, I would say. I was also getting hit with my personal hurricanes that came my way. As I see it that was the year that more evil spirits were unleashed to create more of the chaos that many of us have experienced in the last five years and who many are still experiencing.

      You: Would you allow your daughter’s leg to be amputated if she had gangrene in her foot? You love your wife, but you chose to get her pregnant, knowing the horrific pain she’d endure to give birth, and knowing that any time something happened to that child, she would suffer.

      Of course if there was no other solution to be able to save her foot. I didn’t understand the part about the wife.

      You: I know that after Job suffered, God blessed him with more than he had in the first place. I know that Joseph’s abandonment, slavery and imprisonment humbled him of some of his pride and, because of or in spite of all he endured, he became a man of impeccable character.

      You know that while reading for the first time scriptures, GOD used Joseph life as an illustration of my own personal life. I got so much comfort and peace which I can’t explain with word the things that the LORD revealed to me while reading the story of Joseph. When I reached the book of Proverbs, GOD reveal that I was the fool that was so mentioned in proverbs “thinking myself to be wise I became a fool” and you know what HE was correct. Now the book of Job till this day I can’t comprehend, it’s extremely troubling for me, and let me tell you why. Brace yourself you’re not going to like what I’m about to say, but keep an open mind. What troubles me is that the bible says that GOD asked Satan in Job 2:3 :

      And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

      This is crazy, for one, why does GOD have to prove or play this game with satan. HE created him, GOD shouldn’t have to asked any question to prove anything to satan. This is something that we mere insecure humans would do, my GOD has no need to engage a created being in this manner!

      Yes I know we can’t choose and pick what scriptures we will accept as true and which once we won’t. Okay, how about this, scripture is inspired of GOD and they are HIS revelation of HIMSELF to us, no problem I believe that. Now here is the question, if satan has manged to get involved in all aspect of our fallen world, and he is controlling the evil that we see, isn’t there the possibility that through the ages and the translation of scriptures, evil has managed to add or subtract from here and there words that could possibly have an outcome like this? Just asking, I know that men will always pass judgment, I have a clear conscience and I know that my GOD will not judge me for asking and seeking HIM so I may know HIM as HE knows me. I can’t except that, that is something that us petty humans who are insecure do to prove our point, the CREATOR has no need to do this.

      You: I know God had to ask His own son to die . . . for us . . . while we were still sinners. While there are certainly parallels in this life, the spirit world is a very different place from Earth. We cannot imagine what things are like there, but we know that the time we spend here is fleeting. Perhaps when we get there, it will be as if we had wakened from a vivid dream.

      I hope so because to be honest with you life really doesn’t make much sense, in the scope of eternity.

      You: If we never suffered, we could never partake of God’s strength, companionship, or comfort. There are some things that must be experienced to be understood. We can hear about God’s goodness, mercy, or love, but until we experience it for ourselves we don’t know that aspect of Him. He wants us to know Him as He knows us!

      I’m with you on that, you could only know how to forgive when you been forgiven, you can only know how to have mercy when you have received it, you can only have peace when you have been broken.

      You said: ‘I have no problem in trusting and following GOD 100% even if He wasn’t the creator of all things, just as long that I knew for sure that He was fighting against the evil. Even if that evil was equal to HIM in power.’

      You: My response: My belief is that evil will always exist, or have the potential to exist. I believe this is why God requires His children to be overcomers of evil. I believe we (or if not us, the angels) needed to see the whole life cycle of sin, to really understand why it must never be allowed to triumph . . . why even a little sin is too much. I believe God gives us the opportunity to come to the point that we hate sin enough to be ever-vigilant, and to give everything we have in us to fight it, whenever it raises its ugly head. I believe, even in the presence of evil, that God can endure and triumph. But I believe, for our sakes, that He will put an end to it.

      You asked: ‘Scripture tells us to obey our earthly kings or rulers, does that mean that we should sit back and allow corrupt evil rulers like Hitler,Stalin, Mussolini, Mao, Castro etc to do as they please, since scripture tells us that they are put there by GOD?’

      You: My response: As far as evil rulers–no, we don’t submit. ‘We ought to obey God rather than men’. Again, we must stand up and fight evil. We belong to a kingdom that has a greater authority than the kingdoms of this world. We must abide by the laws and standards of God’s kingdom.

      I’m with you and I agree, but scripture does say that our earthly ruler are placed in power by GOD. That was the question. If so, than why should any of us be upset with any of our corrupt leaders in America? You see the point I’m trying to make? You will fine some pastors that don’t get involved with no aspect of politics what so ever, and than you have some other pastor that this is all they do. You have some Christians that are timid and don’t get involved and you have others that are extremely vocal.

      You: We are where we are now, because we didn’t know that we should have been doing that all along. We seem to have believed that, since we were present here, this world and its ways should take priority. You said: ‘Also I’m sure you have heard people make the claim that the GOD of the old testament is different than the GOD that reveals HIMSELF in the new testament.’

      Yes I hear this all the time.

      You: My response: God never changes. There’s a lot that people without the Holy Spirit indwelling them can’t understand.

      I agree.

      You said: ‘There is a book called “Chariot of the gods” they had a documentary on it on the History channel I believe not to long ago. The author uses scriptures with what people who have claimed to be abducted say about their encounters with aliens and then shows scriptures to make the argument for what he claims were space traveler rather than what we would call GOD. It’s an interesting read and not for those that have little faith.’

      It was very interesting and guess what, why can there not be other life form in our galaxy, and if there is , does that mean GOD isn’t real? Of course not, people are to paranoid and they tend to place their own personal hangups and limitations on GOD.

      You: My response: The scriptures illustrate, time and again, who God says He is. He is not a deceiver. It is a seductive idea, and seems plausible, but that’s only because we’ve been desensitized to it through TV & movies. Remember, what we know is what we are told. It is not God behind the microphone at the evening news. People have biases, fantasies, ideas, and agendas. Most of what is real is never mentioned–instead, we are constantly spoonfed a paradigm that suits the needs of those that control the media–whether it is for their financial gain, or for the purposes of social engineering.

      Guess what, I agree with you and let me add they’re in the church also. Deceiving those that believe what ever they’re told with out seeking GOD in prayer and asking HIM for wisdom to be able to discern truth from lies.

      You said: ‘See I just don’t accept the whole satan deal, I do believe that evil exist and that it’s all around us, and that there are evil spirits that could take control of people, no doubt in my mind that it’s all true. My whole argument is, why if GOD created all things HE would create something knowing all the harm that it would do’

      You: My reply: Just because you don’t understand something doesn’t mean you should dismiss it. If the Bible is God’s word to us, and if God is truthful, then there definitely IS a devil–Jesus speaks of him, and he is referred to as ‘the serpent’ in Genesis, and ‘the dragon’ in Revelation.

      Again please listen to what I’m saying, why would GOD create something knowing beforehand all the destruction and evil that it would bring to all of humanity. That doesn’t make any sense at all. Now if you were to say well satan is not a creation of GOD than I would accept and trust and believe even more, for the mere fact that it would than make sense.

      You: I have come to believe, after studying Revelation, that there are some other very powerful demonic beings that we haven’t seen yet. I also am not sure whether Satan and Lucifer are the same evil being–but they’re close enough for me to consider them one and the same.

      You’re absolutely right.

      You: It sounds like you may be questioning some very basic things–like: is the Bible true? is it infallible? is it God’s word to us? in addition to your questions concerning God’s character.

      I believe in GOD and trust HIM completely, scriptures you could say I believe for the most parts, somethings I don’t understand and others I just don’t accept, like Job or satan. As to GOD’S character, HE has always been by my side even when I didn’t care for HIM or when I went through a period in life of not knowing or even to the point of not believing, It was at that time that HE was closes to me, I couldn’t see it back then, but when HE removed my blinders I knew.

      You: If you are going to make judgments about what you are going to believe, it is important to decide what you will measure things against. Will you base your decision on what the Bible says–or on what you prefer to believe?

      You know why so many people that call themselves Christians fall into the same traps as those that are of the world? Because they just try to live life on their strength and many time accept things in their heads yet not in their hearts. I on the other hand always ask questions, never in my life have I felt embarrassed for asking something that others might laugh at or frown upon. Guess what, this is the way GOD wired me, and I do hear HIS voice, everything that I’m writing HE has heard countless times.

      Look when my business started to go downhill am I began for the first time in my life to get customers from the pit of hell, and what had never happened in the first 24 years in business was now happening for the first time, I mean one right after the other. I was overwhelmed with everything that I was experiencing, yet through all of it I kept my faith, did the right things and ended up losing what I had worked hard my whole life to build. In the process my health suffered for the first time, both of my knees gave out, possibly due to the fact that I was working 16 hour days, Monday through Saturday and even doing a couple of hours on Sunday.

      I was feeling really bad for myself having a pity party asking the LORD why, why did this happen? I just couldn’t understand what went wrong or if maybe it was due to mistakes that I had done to bring about my situation. Guess how GOD gave me the respond? Remember all the hurricanes that year. During the last one that hit we were without power for almost two weeks, the street signals weren’t working and they had make shift stop signs that they had put at the intersections. I was with my wife driving in our company u-hual type truck. Came to the intersection made my stop. Across from me was an elderly gentleman with what I assume was his wife, the gentleman did all the right things, he made a full stop moved forward slowly his wife look at my wife and smile as they were making their left turn. At the same time I see a vehicle approaching at what appeared to be high speed, I saw him through my passenger right side mirror. Just as the elderly gentleman was making his complete turn I’m seeing it coming, and bam! The small car goes swerving, the driver of the mini-van rushes out of his car to the vehicle he just hit, I’m sitting in shock and can’t find the strength to move, next thing I see the man jump in the air hit the top of the roof of the car after he looked inside the vehicle. The elderly lady die on impact. The man that caused the accident didn’t wake up that morning expecting to get in a car accident and take someone life away, but he did.

      His daughter was sitting on the grandma’s lap without a seat belt and nothing happened to them, yet the elderly gentleman who my wife and I both witnessed that did all the right things, he was now without a wife. This was a real sad thing to witness, and all of a sudden all my problem seemed like nothing, and in the process GOD gave me the answer to which I was constantly seeking. Like the elderly man that was driving cautiously and did everything right, he ended up losing his wife, I on the other hand felt like garbage at this point for the pitty party that I had been having. All I lost was my business nothing at all remotely as important as someone’s life, which was what the elderly lady lost or the lost by the elderly gentleman of his wife. I got my answer in a way that I will always remember. An elderly woman lost her life and GOD put me there at the precise time so that I could witness with my own eyes what happened and in the process get the answer to my question.

      After that my knees got even worst to the point that I couldn’t walk, everyone kept on telling to go and get my knees operated or at least get some cortisone shots, then I would meet other people who had surgery and told me that they eventually had to have two surgeries and finally ended getting hip replacement surgery. Well I didn’t listen to anyone that suggested anything to do with going to the doctors, let alone surgery. See I have always trusted GOD even with my health, HE has blessed me with excellent health and I haven’t had a check-up in over 33 years, yes I know everyone tells me I’m crazy. I did listen to someone that recommended some all natural pills called Glucosemin they took about six month to actually start working, I did take two Aleve each morning when I got up. Guess what? Those commercial on t.v. with the old folks that take the Aleve then go dancing or participate in sport activities, it’s for real they do work.

      Well it took two years for the pain to finally go away in the process I gained close to 100 pounds due to inactivity, I have within the last year lost the weight, and I’m down to my normal weight. Both of my knees are 100% fine and I know who was the one who restore me back to health. It was the LORD, I trusted HIM, HE is faithful and I’m back too full health, and even in this lousy economy I know that if it’s HIS will, what I lost HE will restore. I don’t lack faith in GOD, I just don’t trust man. which is a whole different story.

      You: I understand questioning and confusion, regarding things that are not explained in the Bible, or that seem contrary to everyday life . . . but when something is spelled out in the Bible, and it doesn’t fit with our paradigm of how things are, or should be, we (Christians) must accommodate ourselves to it, rather than tinker with The Word to align it with our beliefs.

      I don’t tinker I seek, HE who I trust and follow, it’s man who places limits on GOD and on what we can and should believe. I know that I know nothing, so it’s why I seek HIM who knows all things.

      You: There are always things that we are not going to understand. It is folly to think that we could understand a world and beings that we have never seen, based on our experiences in a world that is only a faint representation of the one that is real and eternal. If that world cannot be viewed with our eyes, why would we believe that we could understand it with our finite minds? Eventually you come to a place where you take a leap of faith, and believe in what you cannot see–or you step back from the edge.

      Absolutely, but you should never stop trying to understand GOD or HIS ways, can you think of anything that could be more worthy than trying to seek GOD and HIS mysteries?

      You: Be very careful. The whole reason that there is so much deception and delusion in the world today, is because people ‘did not love the truth, so God sent them a powerful delusion . . . ‘

      Your right again, Roman 1:18-32 says it plainly

      18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

      21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

      24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

      26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

      28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

      You: In my opinion, most of the questions you are struggling with are answered when you really understand free will. The way that I understand free will, it may very well be one of the most fundamental and critical building blocks in God’s design for mankind.

      Nope only GOD has free will, we just have choices or limited free will. Here is an example: Pharaoh, what did GOD say to him? So than, Pharaoh didn’t have free will he had choices or limited free will. It might be hard to understand, but if we can’t control the outcome we can’t call it free will.

  4. @Toosmalltosucceed

    Really enjoyed this discussion. I was amazed at how much of your personal up & downs you shared in your responses and your devotion to your strong faith. Thank you

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